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The Humane Marketing Show. A podcast for a generation of marketers who care.

Aug 5, 2022

Today I'm talking to Marcy Amato about how to build confidence and competence.

Marcy Amaro, is an educator, speaking expert, podcaster, and empowerment coach who has been working with new entrepreneurs and business owners for nearly three decades. As a coach and mentor, she helps her clients find the confidence and develop the skills necessary to refine their voice and increase their impact through public speaking. Video, podcasting, live events, and other speaking engagements are the fastest and most effective way to scale your business and increase your impact. Marcy can help you find, hone, and leverage your voice for both impact AND income!

In this episode, you'll learn about how to build confidence and comptence as well as...


  • Marcy's definition of confidence
  • The concept 'From Unconscious Incompetence to Unconscious Competence'
  • The correlation between responsibility and confidence
  • Actionable first steps would you recommend for someone who is struggling with self-doubt, lack of confidence, or imposter syndrome
  • And so much more

Marcy’s Resources


Marcy's Website

Connect with Marcy on:




Sarah's Resources

Watch this episode on Youtube

(FREE) Sarah’s One Page Marketing Plan

(FREE) Sarah Suggests Newsletter

(FREE) The Humane Business Manifesto

(FREE) Gentle Confidence Mini-Course

Marketing Like We're Human - Sarah's book

The Humane Marketing Circle

Authentic & Fair Pricing Mini-Course

Podcast Show Notes

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Thanks for listening!


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Imperfect Transcript of the show

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Marcy: [00:00:00] Hi, Marcy. So good to 

Sarah: see you and good to hang out with you. We're actually doing a double episode. Wonderful. My show. And then I'm gonna. 

Marcy: To your show as well. So really excited to be. Yeah, I'm really excited. I'm really excited. Thank you. 

Sarah: So we got to know each other Marcy, because you invited me to a summit.

I call it, I, I ended up calling it a cozy summit because I just felt like it was such a cozy atmosphere. I'm not a. Not always a big fan of these huge summits, whether there's like 50 speakers, you know, like it's almost like overwhelming 

Marcy: the people who sign up sometimes 

Sarah: they're they're good value. But anyway, I liked yours.

It was very cozy. And thank you. And authentic, because that was also the, the topic the, of, of this summit. So being authentic in business and, and visibility and all that. So we really connected on that authentic level. And I thought, well, I need to [00:01:00] have you on my show, not to talk about authenticity. , but what we really wanted to talk about is something that you presented to your summit subscribers about this idea of and I have to read it because it's, it's, it's like, it was like a, to how do you call those tongue.

Tongue twister, tongue twister. Yeah. Tongue twister. Because it it's, it is from unconscious incompetence to unconscious competence. Yes. So this idea that you go from the incompetence to competence, but from unconscious to, and I actually said it wrong from unconscious to conscious, right. 

Marcy: No, it's unconscious to unconscious.

Yeah. Unconscious to unconscious. Explain it more in a minute. Yeah. okay. 

Sarah: Yeah. So anyway, we're, we're gonna unpack that because I think there's a lot to say about that. But maybe. Before we get into that you call yourself a speaking and empowerment coach. So tell us what the biggest, biggest struggle is for your [00:02:00] clients.

What, what did they, what did they come to you 

Marcy: for? Most of my clients come to me because they have been trying to build a tribal movement around something that is just a passion of theirs. Something that they truly believe would change the world for the better. But they can't seem to get traction on their message.

Like they go back and forth on how to present it, or they might even be terrified of the whole idea of standing in front of other people and talking, even if it's virtually like a lot of people have a lot of apprehension. In fact, public speaking is the number one fear in the world. So they are reallys.

Scared or uncomfortable or unsure about how to get their message out there. So what I help them do is hone in on what their real message is. Mm-hmm , I help them gain confidence and empower them in their ability to present that message in a way that resonates with other people. And then I help them launch some sort of platform so that they can actually [00:03:00] deliver their message and make it visible and accessible to the public.

So that's what they come to me. 

Sarah: Mm sounds wonderful. And you mentioned a term that I think kind of fits with this unconscious incompetence and unconscious competence, which is the word confidence. So. You help your clients with confidence? Tell us mm-hmm, more about how you would define confidence. We talk about confidence a lot here on this podcast, because for, you know, the gentle kind of people, the heart centered entrepreneurs, confidence is a big thing.

Yes. So how would you define it? How do you talk about it in your 

Marcy: words? My big thing with confidence is we tend to confuse it with self assurance, right? Like most of the time when we talk about wanting to be confident, what we're really looking for is that sense of self assurance that I can stand wherever I'm at and look like I know what I'm doing and where I won't be fidgeting and nervous and unsure about [00:04:00] what I am about to.

Right. Mm-hmm mm-hmm so that is more of a self-assurance issue than confidence. In my view, confidence is something that is dependent on the task and on the situation, like we can be completely confident in certain circumstances and completely lack confidence in others. And it's the same person. Right? So when we talk about confidence per se, In my opinion, we're looking more at competence than confidence.

And we can talk about that distinction in a minute if you'd like, but it's this idea that. Confidence comes from feeling like we have the skill, the talent, and the ability to perform the particular task that is in front of us. Not necessarily the overall sense of self assurance. Those are two different things in my view.


Sarah: it's interesting. So it, to me, it sounds like. One. So the, the self-assurance is kind of like definitely this inner work to, you know, that you can work on [00:05:00] to get self-assurance and then the confidence, the way you define it is more like, well, get competent and then you will feel more con. 

Marcy: Fit confidence.

It does feel like we're doing a tongue twister, right? yes. And there are different, and there are different elements to this piece of confidence. Right. And I think that they all somehow intertwine and stem from competence in what we will unpack in a minute, but it comes from. Competence right from the commitment on actually achieving whatever it is that you're trying to achieve.

And from as assuming responsibility right for that task or that end result. So when I know that I'm not a victim to whatever's happening around me, that I am responsible for the results I produce when I am committed. To getting to that result. And I am developing the confidence to get to that result.

I mean, the competence, there's no way I cannot be confident in doing what I'm about to do. Does that make sense? Mm mm-hmm mm-hmm 

Sarah: so you brought in another word [00:06:00] that's responsibility and so , well, I think it's time that we unpack your, your concept from unconscious incompetence to unconscious competence so that we.

Kind of place these different terms at the right places. So tell us all about 

Marcy: absolutely. And it might get a little tricky there for a minute. So I'll go a little slowly at the beginning. So there are four levels in this transition, and this is not a concept that I came up with. This is something that I've learned throughout my study of leadership and it begins with whatever.

What we want to accomplish whatever skill we want to be confident in or whatever we want to do. We typically start at the unconscious incompetence level, which means that we don't know what we don't. Right. So we are unsure of what it even entails. We might know that we want to do something with it. We might know that it's important.

We might have a preliminary definition of what it is, but we don't know all the skills that are involved. We [00:07:00] don't know what we should research. We don't even know where to start. Right. So that's the unconscious incompetent piece from that we move to conscious incompetence, which means that now we are aware of everything that we Don.

So we've all been in the, in the space, right. Where we are trying to get better at something, whatever it might be. And we start looking into it and then we realize, oh, wait a minute, like, let's use business for instance, wait a minute. I thought I could just start a business, but I need to learn about marketing.

And I need to know about copywriting and I need to know about audiences and I need to know about promotion and I need to know about offers and, and we start unpacking all the different things that are involved in it. And suddenly we're really conscious of everything that we don't. So we get into the space, usually of feeling a little bit of overwhelmed and of feeling like, do I really need to know all of this and feeling this big because we realize how little we actually know about the enterprise that we just started.

And that's that level of conscious incompetence. Mm-hmm as we start. [00:08:00] Just diving into all that research. Then we move into conscious competence, which is when we are able to do the thing. So we know what we need to do, but we need to be very conscious and very aware of every step involved in the process.

So that's when we might need to rely on checklists or we might need to rely on scripts, or we might need to do get a little hand holding from someone that's gonna walk us through the process. Right. So we can do it. We're able to perform, but we still need eight and resources to help us through because we're very conscious of every little step that we need to do.

Right. And then we finally get to that level of unconscious competence, which is when we are so competent in that skill, that it becomes second nature. It's in our body language, it's in everything we do, it becomes part of who we are. We don't have to think about it. We. Do it, and it becomes so ingrained in who we are and what we do that [00:09:00] sometimes we even forget that we went through that entire process and it becomes something that we take for granted.

Mm-hmm because it's so. Comfortable. And it's so easy and we are so confident in doing it that we don't even have to think about it. So those are the stages. 

Sarah: Mm. Yeah. I love that. And when you presented it, you kind of had this these steps, right. Like of a staircase and we were you you're going up. I have a bunch of follow up questions and, and maybe also kind.

Playing devil's advocate about the last stage, but let me start with the, the idea of the word incompetence to me. It has kind of, you know, has this negative aftertaste in my mouth, Sinai. I think it's just natural and human to not want to be incompetent. So is it always a bad thing to be incompetent?

Marcy: Not even a little bit. And actually , there's this saying in my world, embrace the suck. I don't know if you've heard that before. Mm-hmm but embrace the fact that [00:10:00] everybody starts sucking and I hate that word, but. I mean, it is what it is. We all start bad at whatever it is that we're doing something.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is once we understand all those terms that we usually assign a negative connotation to us neutral. Right. So there's nothing good or bad unless you interpret it as good or bad. Yes. Can we all agree on that? So if we agree on that, then we can see that incompetence simply means that we are not yet competent.

So that means there's a lot of room for growth and for improvement. Right? Right. And if we embrace this idea that we need to be lifelong learners, then every time we recognize an area of unconscious incompetence, We should get excited about the prospect of eventually becoming competent. If it's something that really resonates with us, or that is important to us, right?

Mm-hmm , there are areas in life that I will always want to be incompetent in. Right. There are things that I just have absolutely no interest in learning. At all [00:11:00] whatsoever, like I have no interest in learning how to play football. I have no interest, you know, there are certain things that I'm just not interested in and you as well.

So it's okay to recognize that those are areas of incompetence. And even as we build businesses, or even as we grow our movements, It's important to recognize those areas of incompetence and be honest with ourselves about whether that is something that we want to build the competence in, or if it's something that we simply want to get alongside someone else who is competent at it, who gets passion from it, who loves it.

And then partner with that person because that's part of the beauty. I think of what you propose as humane and gentle marketing, right. Is we don't have to know it all. We can be in collaboration with other people and that expands our ability to be competent. 

Sarah: Yeah. Or, or even just. Not do it at all. Like I'm thinking of, you know, the social media things.

Well, I'm definitely incompetent on Instagram and I could partner with someone who's [00:12:00] competent. But maybe I just don't want to so I can also absolutely say, you know, not for me it's okay. That I I'm. Absolutely. I'm not there. Yeah. Yeah. I really appreciate you saying that. And then the other end of the spectrum is the, the, the unconscious competence where.

You know, sometimes it's also good to still have that beginner's mind all the time. Right. And, and I think you kind of hinted at it's like this risk of feeling super competent and then maybe start lacking. Is it like slacking a little bit and not doing the preparation you need to do or. Or just not expand your thinking and, and your learning.

Have you seen that as well? 

Marcy: Yeah. And not only that and I, I will touch on what you just said, but I would add to that the layer of I very often have clients who come to me with this. Belief that they don't have anything special to offer the marketplace. Like there's nothing unique about them at [00:13:00] all.

And that stems from being so deeply into unconscious competence, that they can't even recognize their talents anymore. Right. Like they're, they come so naturally to them that they don't see it as something special, but what is. An unconsciously competent area for you is most likely something that somebody else is having a hard time with or wanting to learn more about mm-hmm so there's two dangers to this area of unconscious competence.

And I will tell you in a second, what I believe the solution to that is, but it's like you mentioned is first getting really LA lack about it and being all like, oh, it's fine. I don't need to worry about it, cuz I'm just so good at it. Don't need to grow anymore. I don't need to worry about it anymore. And on the other side, becoming so disattached from it, right?

That you don't even recognize it as a talent or an ability or a value that you can bring to the marketplace anymore. Right? So my solution to that [00:14:00] is always room for growth, no matter where you're at and to develop what It's called and I forget the lady's name right now, but I will think of it a learner's mindset.

Right? So it's just this idea of always being in a position to learn more, to grow more, to see. And a lot of that has to do with the environment that you surround yourself with and the networking and the connections that you make. Right? Because as you get in touch with others who are also really competent in certain areas, you start to realize, oh wait, I never thought of it that way.

Or I never saw it this way, or I never. Experimented with doing it that way. And you start to see that there's always even more room for growth. Mm-hmm . 

Sarah: Yeah. At the same time, when I think about, you know, marketing and humane marketing, I'm, I'm kind of like, if I always look somewhere else, then I also kind of lose my own way again.

so it, it really is a, yeah. You need to find the balance where it's like, okay. I do always. [00:15:00] Get, you know, inspiration from others and see what others do and keep learning. And yet. You know, stay in my own on my own lane and say, no, this is how I'm gonna do it without necessarily being influenced how other people do it.

So it really is that yeah. Balance that you need to find for 

Marcy: yourself. And I think that that's where the authenticity piece comes in. When you really know who you are and you really are in tune and aligned with your values, there are certain things that you're going to see others do that are immediately going to cause a resistance in the sense of no, that doesn't sound like me or that doesn't look like something I would venture into.

And it's trusting that, right? Like there are certain levels of resistance where you need to step into it and just risk it because that's where your next level of growth is. But there are certain things that are just so against. Your nature against who you really are. That just that resistance is saving you from being inauthentic from stepping outside of your values or of your vision.

So [00:16:00] it's being really aware and I think both you and I agree in that the very first step in anything that we endeavor has to be complete awareness, right. And so being 100% aware, What your limitations and your boundaries are and being, almost maniacal about not giving up your boundaries and not giving up your authenticity and your integrity.

I think that that's where the, the balance is found. 

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad. Glad you're bringing this up. This reminds me of a, a story that I wanted to share about, you know, 

Marcy: my own 

Sarah: realization of these things that you were like, oh, that other people are doing this. Like recently I looked that into book marketing because somebody approached me on LinkedIn about book marketing.

I'm like, well, yeah, I guess I could do more. The book and, you know, market the, and so I was like, okay, let's get on a zoom call and have a conversation about this. And then the minute, you know, this [00:17:00] guy started to, because I asked him specific questions, what are you gonna do? How are you gonna do it? And he's like, oh, I'm just posting on social media.

I'm like, whoa. You know, tell me, tell me more, tell me details. And he's like, oh, I'm just gonna post it on different groups. And I'm like, something's fishy here. I think, you know, this is not, this is not gonna work out. but yet the ego was telling me, oh, this is gonna be good. You know, this is gonna mean more readers.

And, and then, and then the, I guess the. The integrity kicked in and said, said, watch out. Something's not right here. And, and so, yeah. Yeah, it's, it's interesting to, you know, still, still expose yourselves to maybe opportunities and things of growth and at the same time realize, okay, you know, This was not that thing that would work for me.


Marcy: And, and also being gentle with ourselves in the sense of understanding that we evolve. Right. [00:18:00] Yeah. And so very often we start businesses or ventures with an idealistic view of what we are going to create. Mm-hmm based on. This dream imaginary utopian world that we created in our heads before we dove into what it really is.

Right. Right. But as we're exposed to the reality of how things tend to operate out there, we evolve. And that's just the truth. Right? Sometimes we find ourselves going, oh, wait a minute. Maybe I can explore this, or maybe I should do that. Or we see ourselves shift. From one perspective to the next. And it's important to be gentle with ourselves and have grace with ourselves in understanding that if we are to move on this for the long term, then we are going to evolve and we are going to shift and we are going to change.

So be open to listening, but also be honest with yourself as to whether this is too much of a compromise to your integrity or not, right? Like, yeah, [00:19:00] you might not. Been in a position right now to say yes to that, but maybe you'll think back on it and maybe, maybe not, maybe you'll think back on it in a few months or a year, and you'll be like, you know what, now I'm willing to explore it a little bit more.

Mm-hmm and knowing that that's okay. Right. So we shift, we evolve with change and the only way we can know where we want to go and where we don't is by being open enough to examine what's out there and then seeing whether it resonates with us or. Yeah. 

Sarah: Yeah. When you were talking about this journey from incompetence to competence, I was thinking about my own journey, for example, with what came up was the webinars that back in the days I would, I remember I would have, you know, the webinar slides and then I would print out, or I know I would ask a friend for some cardboard.

Kind of, because her husband works in a printing shop. And so I would get these print these cardboards and really map out every single slide, what I was gonna say. And, and then I would practice it like, you know, [00:20:00] at least two times go through the whole thing, see how much time I needed for each. And yeah, it was like a big deal every time.

Right. I was like, no, I, I don't feel confident if I don't practice, practice, practice, and. That being said, I still do that with the podcast. I like to write a lot of things out you know, for the intro and outro and like a lot of it is still in writing. Because I think it gives me confidence, but it also just, that's how I process my thoughts.

And, and so I'm curious if you have an example of something. Oh, and then I didn't share that now in the workshops that I'm giving, I just have bullet points maybe, and you know, a bunch of things on the slide. But I do feel like I'm in that zone of unconscious competence, where I don't need to have any script or anything.

So I'm curious what it was for you, where you could really see that journey that you went from. 

Marcy: A to Z, you know, [00:21:00] for me, sorry for me, it's more about the copy because I am a literature major. Mm-hmm like, that's what I studied in school. So I was taught a very formulaic framework for how to write mm-hmm , but that's a very different type of writing than copywriting.

So every time I'm doing anything that relates to copy, I tend to still, to this day, second, guess myself and read it and reread it a million times. And you know, so my process has been. To find a sweet spot where I can write and trust myself, that what I wrote is what needs to get out there and just sending it be before I have a, a chance to just second guess myself too much.

Right, right. And backtrack on it too much. So I've developed certain things that help me. Like, for example, if I'm writing copy for an email broadcast, I actually open my personal email and I open a new message on there and I type it. Like I'm typing a message to a friend on my email. That puts my [00:22:00] mind at ease that I'm not writing.

Copy. I'm writing an email to a friend and I'm just sharing all this information with a friend mm-hmm and then I've gotten into the habit of just copy paste, maybe bold, then highlight a couple of things and just hit send before you have a chance to think too much about it, right? Yeah. that's usually what works actually.

Yeah. When it comes to copy for my website and for landing pages and things like that, I've gotten in the habit of recording it because I feel very C. Speaking mm-hmm . That is something that I have unconscious competence about. I can speak off the cuff about pretty much anything that's in my wheelhouse.

And so when I want to present an idea on a landing page or a website or whatever it may be, or an ad, I record it. And then I go back over what I said, or I just transcribe it, fix it a little bit and just post it and trust that what I said is what I meant to say. And so those are two areas in which I've really worked on, figuring out how to get from unconscious incompetence to on the conscious competence.

And I still struggle a little bit with them because of my background. And [00:23:00] it's just letting go a little bit of my prior training and just focusing on what I wanna say. 

Sarah: Yeah. Those are great tips. I, I love the idea of just writing it in Gmail or Yahoo or whatever, and then copying it over, cuz it really feels like, oh, I'm just writing this to a friend.

So you don't get into that. Oh, I, you know, have to send out this professional sounding email, which then doesn't come over as being authentic. 

Marcy: Yeah, exactly. And I actually got that idea from Amy Yama and she's a mentor and she's amazing. And we were talking about it once, how I was not getting the engagement from my email list that I was hoping for mm-hmm and she said, well, walk me through your process.

Mm-hmm . And I was like, well, I sit down and, and she's like, okay, that's the first issue right there. think about how we can make this feel to you. Like, you're just chatting with a friend and then everything else will come together. And so she's the one that gave me that idea. So you, me, 

Sarah: yeah. Wonderful. We kind of skipped over the responsibility terms, so [00:24:00] let's go back to that.

How, how does that, so how does the responsibility and confidence, what do they have to do together? 

Marcy: Okay. So one of the things that I have found in my own work with myself and in working with clients is that if we ha have any kind of victimized view in terms of what we're doing and the results we're getting.

That gives us a back door. So that gives us an excuse or a justification for not trying for not doing and for not reaching. Right. So the more we can move away from that into responsibility, the more confidence we can develop in the fact that whatever result we're getting is within our control. So if we don't like it, we can fix it.

Right. And there are two elements that fall into that element of responsibility. One is the accountability piece, which is knowing that. Get to own my actions and the results of those actions. And I get to just [00:25:00] take the consequences and, or the rewards, right. So it's not up to anybody else. I'm not looking to blame anybody else.

I'm not looking to justify anything. Did I do what I said I was gonna do? Yes or no. And why? And then I get to own it. And that helps me shift if I need to. So that the next time I do get to the result. Right. And the other piece that goes into the responsibility issue is this idea of self-regulation, which is knowing how far I'm willing to go.

Right. So, Understanding that it might take a little while that it might not happen right away, that I might need to risk certain things that I might need to give up some comforts or some things that are nice for me, if I'm really working towards this particular field or this particular result. Right. So if I can assume ownership, which is the accountability piece and also.

Regulate myself in understanding that there will be some sacrifices, probably that there will be some things that I get to do [00:26:00] differently or that I get to shift. Then I am in full responsibility and I can shift the confidence lever because I understand that whatever the end result is is up to me. It's not to not up to anything else or anybody else.

The circumstances are not to blame. The people are not to blame. It's just me. What am I willing to do? And how far am I willing to go? 

Sarah: I just love that piece. So much of the responsibility. And I have not heard it before in the context of, of confidence. And I think it's all there. It's that that's, that's really it.

And, and I'm not blaming people who are lacking that responsibility piece. I'm blaming. You know, I'm blaming the whole online system, really the online gurus and, and the way we've been treating clients and subscribers and et cetera, et cetera, because we've taken the power away from clients. And so no [00:27:00] wonder.

They felt like they were, could just give up responsibility. Let me show you how I, my webinar made a million dollars in three weeks. Here are the three steps. Right? Well, great. Yeah. I don't have to take responsibility. You're just gonna spoon feeded me the information and off I go. And, and then of course they fall into the victim because it's not working.

so. That responsibility piece is so it's so important. And, and I think we really need to talk about it more. Yeah, things don't I think it, it goes together with this idea of things. Don't just come easy. You, the, it takes work to go from incompetence to competence and the confidence piece fits in there as well.

So yeah, you do have to take responsibility, but that also means that us. You know, the leaders or the entrepreneurs have to be willing to share the [00:28:00] responsibility or give the responsibility back. That's really what I'm trying to do in the humane marketing circle. I'm saying, look, look, I'm not your guru.

I'm not gonna teach you step by step things and tutorials and whatever. Yeah, I'm, I'm wanting to work with responsible human beings. Right? I don't. Do you see any examples where, where that is really addressed? 

Marcy: Well, I think as COVID has shifted the way we do business online, because it has become such a, such an integral part of everything that we do.

Right. So, right. Everybody now has some knowledge of how online works. Period. Mm-hmm right. Yeah. So I think as the world has shifted because of everything that we went through with COVID, people are becoming more and more savvy and more aware of those red flags, right? Like everything starts just sounding alarms around this idea of right.

Yeah. You can do it in 90 days or [00:29:00] no, you can do it in three steps or no, you can do it in whatever. And there is a piece to. Marketing in general, where we want our clients to feel like they have what it takes to do it. Right. But I think the danger comes in oversimplifying or over promising. Right. Right.

And that happens too much still. Mm-hmm I know I've had the experience of signing up for $10,000 programs that promised me six figures in 90 days. And I went through the program. I did what I was supposed to do. Did not get the six figures in 90 days. And then when I went to talk to the guru or the person in charge, they were like, no, you didn't do it exactly the way I told you to do it.

So there's always, I don't know. There's always a, a. A touchy element to that. Right. And there's, again, a balance that we want to achieve because nobody's going to sign up for something where they feel like it's impossible to achieve. No. [00:30:00] Yeah. But, but we also need to be clear on the fact that, well, you know, if you put in the work.

When effectively applied, then this is the end result you can work towards. Yeah. But I can't guarantee when or how, because that depends on your effort. So putting it back on the client in that sense, I think it's important. And I think we're doing a little bit. Better a little bit at that since COVID because like I said, people are just overloaded.

Everybody has a summit, everybody has a webinar, everybody has a challenge. Everybody has a, something that we're offering for free with these big promises. And then they see themselves signing on and not getting the results and wondering, okay, where was the missing piece? Yeah. And I think a big, a big part of the missing piece.

Like I think every. Single person who's promoting has the, I believe. And I want to believe that has the intention of helping the people produce the result. I think the missing link is in giving the other person, the client, the [00:31:00] responsibility piece and helping them understand that look, these steps will work to the extent that you do mm-hmm so I'm gonna help you work them, but you have to work them.


Sarah: Yeah. It's so interesting. I, I was recently on a, a prepo call where the, the lady was, you know, basically asking me what five steps can you share? And I'm like, I don't really work in five steps. Like it's a lot about finding what works for you. And, and so she's like, no, no, no, but I can help you nail it down.

Just gimme five steps. And I'm like, you know what? I think, I think this is not gonna work because my audience. Or, or your audience is trained with these five steps and they're not gonna respond to what I'm, you know, ready to share. So I think it's it's yeah, it really, to me, it is about empowering the client and making sure that people understand.

These were all scams. You [00:32:00] know, we it's the exception. If you really do make a six figure business business in 90 days, and then kind of coming down more back to the reality of things, but we kind of got off track. So let's go back to, to our because we could talk about. About that stuff for hours, right?

Yeah. So kind of maybe to, to wrap up, what, what actionable first steps would you recommend for someone who is struggling with, you know, this confidence piece, where would, where would they start? 

Marcy: All right. So like I said before, I believe everything starts with clear awareness, like full and complete awareness.

So the first actionable step I would suggest anybody is be 100% crystal clear on what the end result is that you're trying to produce what it is that you want to get yourself and your clients too. Achieve. Right. So once you know exactly where it is that you get [00:33:00] to go where it is that you want to end up, then you can kind of backwards plan, right.

And figure out, okay, what do I need to do? But when you have the end result in mind and you're crystal clear on what that end result is, then you can start. Laying out. Okay. What are these areas that I would need to touch on that I'm really not competent in that I'm really not confident about? And where can I go to start building that conscious incompetence?

Where can I go to start researching and looking for what I need to work on, what I get to improve upon so that I eventually get to that confide. Piece. Right. If you're looking specifically at, for example, my clients who work on public speaking I first and foremost is like, okay, what kind of platform do you want?

Do you want to actually speak in front of life? Audiences? Is that your end goal? Because if that is your end goal, then we need to. Start working on your physiology right away. And that's something that a lot of people don't think about when they're thinking about public speaking, they think about [00:34:00] message and how to structure their talk and, and all that is part of it.

But if that is your end result, we need to start with how you stand, how you breathe, how you position your body, so that you are more confident in front of that audience, or look more self assured, which is what they really are looking for. Mm-hmm so again, it just depends on what your end result. Is what it is that you're looking to achieve.

And once you're crystal clear on that, then figuring out, okay, what things do I need to be competent in, in order to feel confident at that end result? Hmm. Yeah. 

Sarah: So good. And I, I, I would assume that not a lot of people think that way and it it's funny. We just recently at dinner at the dinner table, we looked up the seven habits of highly effective people from steam co.

And, and that is actually one of them start with the end in mind. And so that's. Pretty much what you're saying here is like, yeah. Well look at what you want to achieve and then step by step, work up your confidence level to, to get [00:35:00] there. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. This has been wonderful. Thank you so much for thank you.

Coming on to the humane marketing podcast, please do share with people where they can find out more about you and your work. And I believe you also have a, a download for people to go to. 

Marcy: Yeah. So as we are speaking, my website is in reconstruction, but within, by the end of the week, you can go to Marcy and just look up more information, or you can find me on Instagram or LinkedIn, just search Marcy Maro.

And I will come on the only one with gray hair. So the, the only Marc CMR with the gray hair. And yes, I have downloadable to share with you. I will share the link with Sarah, so she can share it with you guys. Showing me because it's a little bit tricky since my website is down, but it is a downloadable of the tough talks checklist, which is just a checklist that walks you through how to have tough conversations in business and in life so that everybody [00:36:00] involved end up feeling heard, understood, and respected in the process.

So wonderful. 

Sarah: And I have one last question for you, Marcy, and that is what are you grateful for today or this week? 

Marcy: I am grateful for my kids being home. And I've been getting to spend a lot of time with them and I'm grateful for the sunshine and for my little dog that keeps me on my toes. she's actually right next to me right now.


Sarah: That's great. It's been so fun. Hanging out with you, Marcy. Thank you so 

Marcy: much. It's always fun. Hanging out with you. Thank you, Sarah.