Oct 14, 2022
Today's conversation fits under the P of Pricing of the Humane Marketing Mandala. I've invited Lindsay Bryan-Podvin, a trained therapist, to talk to us about what imposter syndrome does to your prices and how you can create a pricing strategy that is sustainable.
Lindsay Bryan-Podvin (she/her) is a biracial financial therapist, podcast host, speaker, and author of the book "The Financial Anxiety Solution." In her coaching practice, she helps therapists in social justice or of marginalized identities grow their profitable practices from the inside out; so they can stop feeling icky about money, and start setting and sticking to sustainable rates that allow them to grow their businesses in alignment with their values. She lives with her partner and their dog on the occupied land of the Fox, Peoria, Potawatomi, and Anishinabewaki peoples also known as Michigan.
In this episode, you'll learn about pricing what imposter syndrome does to your prices as well as...
- What Imposter Syndrome means and whether it is a clinical term
- What IS has to do with Pricing
- Confidence and self-trust
- High ticket pricing and Lindsay's take on this practice
- The current situation and what we can do about it
- And so much more
Lindsay’s Resources
The Mind Money Balance Podcast
Connect with Lindsay on:
Sarah's Resources
(FREE) Sarah’s One Page Marketing Plan
(FREE) Sarah Suggests Newsletter
(FREE) The Humane Business Manifesto
(FREE) Gentle Confidence Mini-Course
Marketing Like We're Human - Sarah's book
Authentic & Fair Pricing Mini-Course
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Email Sarah at sarah@sarahsantacroce.com
Thanks for listening!
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Imperfect Transcript of the show
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Sarah: [00:00:00] [00:01:00] [00:02:00] [00:03:00] [00:04:00] [00:05:00] Hi Lindsay, so we're looking forward to you talking to you today. I'm so excited. Yes,
Lindsay: Yes. Same here. Sarah, I'm, I'm really excited for this chat and I think it'll be great for your listeners to learn a little bit more about what we're gonna be
Sarah: covering. Yeah, exactly. We decided to [00:06:00] talk about pricing. And the imposter syndrome.
And I just wanna say that, you know, I get a lot of pitches. Maybe you do too because you have your own podcast, but, , you know, there's about a handful probably, in a year I would even say that. I was just like, Oh yeah, this person I want to have on this show. And so you're one of those and I'm just, Yeah.
So, so happy to have you. So, but let's dive in. Yeah. So this topic. Actually you suggested, to talk about, you know, pricing, which is one of my PS of the Humane Marketing Mandala, but then also kind of juxtaposing it with, , the imposter syndrome. So I think there's a lot that we can cover there. But, let's start maybe with a definition, because you are a trained therapist and I was just wondering if.
Term imposter syndrome. You know, we throw this around so often, especially in the entrepreneurship, , era, and, [00:07:00] and I was like, Well, is this even like a medical term? I don't know. Or is this just kind of the thing that we. We say and and, and, yeah. I would love for you to start by defining it and what that actually means.
Lindsay: Sure. So imposter syndrome can be defined many ways because it is not a clinical diagnosis. It does not fall into the DSM for folks who are in the Northern Hemisphere. That is really what we use when we are diagnosing clients or patients. , but imposter syndrome is this feeling or. Set of thoughts that a person experiences when they don't feel enough, and that can often look like in work context or business context, like this idea that they somehow got their success by mistake or it was a fluke, or they really are putting on a good veneer, but underneath they aren't as smart as other people think they are.
They don't know as much they're going to be found out somehow as being a fraud or fraudulent. When we experience that set of [00:08:00] symptoms or those set of feelings and thoughts, it can make us question our own inherent knowledge and also the wisdom and knowledge we've gained over time. It can make us think that we don't really know as much as we say we know, and it can lead to chasing more external validation.
And so an entrepreneurs this often looks like taking more online courses, taking another certificate. Paying for things that maybe you don't really need, right? So paying for, , maybe a costly mastermind or upgrading your website and getting all these, these funnels and clicks and countdown timers that maybe you don't really need.
Because there's this idea that if I have these other systems in place, or if I have somebody else's stamp of approval, then I'll finally be enough. And what we know about imposter syndrome is. It's not about external validation. It's about inner wisdom and inner knowing and inner trusting. And when it comes to being business owners, that's [00:09:00] where the real work begins of getting comfortable saying, I am enough.
I do know enough. I am competent at helping the clients that I'm meant to serve, or I am competent in selling the products that I know are good and authentic and
Sarah: hopeful. Yeah. Yeah, that's, It always comes back to the inner work, doesn't it? , Right, Right. Absolutely. Um, thank you. That was really helpful. I wonder then, you know, because we placed this conversation under the PPF pricing, let's go into that.
So how does having imposter syndrome, , how's that related to pricing? Where does it show.
Lindsay: The way that I see it show up most commonly is in under pricing. And because if we have this inner doubt that we aren't good enough or smart enough, or can't help enough people, by default, we price our services lower.
Mm-hmm. instead of a sustainable pricing model, we undercharge we under [00:10:00] price and we undervalue our services. And that is where a lot of. Online business owners get into trouble because they slide their prices down so low again, to try and get that external validation. If I have my price low, then I'll get more clients and, and we're chasing again that external validation that we know enough.
, and so when it comes to under pricing, we end up. Actually harming ourselves and creating a bigger imposter syndrome cycle. And what I mean by that is if I price my services so low, that means I need to sell more products, more goods, more services. And that means that I'm stretching myself really thin.
And if I'm stretching myself really thin, I probably don't have the time to practice that restorative self care that we all need. I'm probably not getting enough sleep, not drinking enough water, not moving my body enough, not engaging in hobbies. Side of work and when we are operating kind of stretched thin, our minds [00:11:00] and our bodies aren't able to think rooted and think
in terms of our wisest self. And when we are stressed out, when we are, you know, afraid, our nervous system is afraid, then we go, Oh my gosh, I really don't know enough and I need to take on more. And it's just adding more and more to our plates and sinking us further down. And the lower we get, the more we think we don't know.
And it becomes this really vicious cycle versus pricing for sustainability. Maybe a word that resonates more with your, , listeners, or a word that often is used instead of sustainability is profitability. But that's this idea that in order for us to have sustainable businesses, we need to have not just enough to make ends meet, we have to have enough to be able to pour into ourselves, to be able to pour into our communities and to be able to pour into our businesses.
Because if we are operating. From a afraid space and from a frantic space that actually harms our business in the long run. And it actually harms our [00:12:00] clients in the long run because they're not getting the best of us. They're getting this anxious, afraid, imposter syndrome version of us, and then we're not delivering on what we know we are able to deliver.
Hmm.
Sarah: Yeah. So good. So good. It's, , interesting. I, I was just typing out an email, , that is gonna go out to my, , readers this weekend, and I was talking about my typical day, , and how, you know, how much rest I plan into my day and outside time and connection time, and, and then also saying, you know, Realize this is the typical day of a very, privileged white person.
And that not everybody has that privilege. But if we do have that privilege, then we're not helping anybody by working ourselves to deaths and, getting burned out and exhausted. Like, like you say, that self care. Well, we need to actually make it a priority. And, and I guess, , I see the correlation [00:13:00] here with pricing is like, well, if you have sustainable pricing, , then you can build in more, rest into your day, right?
Because when you actually do get paid, you don't feel like you have to work so much to. You know, just the minimum, Yeah, the minimum income in a way. So, yeah. Yeah, that really, that really resonates. Yeah.
Lindsay: I, I want to just reflect back how, how thankful I am that you mentioned privilege and mentioned some of those things because I'm, I'm biracial, I'm a mixed person of color.
, and I think it goes even more. For folks who have marginalized identities, whether you are queer, trans, a person of color, of a religious minority, your immigration status is different. We actually have, , a duty to practice self care even more because we have all of these taxing systems of microaggressions, of racism, of [00:14:00] sexism, of homophobia coming at us all the time.
And our nervous systems actually need even more time for that space and for that rest, and for that joy too. So I really appreciate you bringing it up and saying, Oh, you know, This is a privileged position to be able to rest, and I want to gently push back and say, actually , it's mandatory. Mm-hmm. , it is so mandatory that we take that time for rest and growth and development outside of our work and how hard it is to do that.
I just shared with my email newsletter. That, , about a year ago I hired somebody to help me just with the things that are I can do, but are not necessarily in my zone of genius. And what happened was, as I had additional spaciousness in my week, , I found myself just doing more work instead of going for walks, taking my dog to the park or anything like that.
Because this system is so designed for us to be working and be productive [00:15:00] and all of that, it's so hard to separate ourselves from that. Yeah. So knowing that it took me a while. I specifically put voice lessons on my calendar because I'm the type of person that if something's on my calendar, I will be there.
Mm-hmm. . So I had to like block out specific times for rest or specific times for joy and a specific time on my calendar where I was committed to somebody else. A little bit of that external accountability, but also it was something that has nothing to do with business, it has nothing to do with growing my practice.
It is all about kind of just engaging in that fun and that joy and that playfulness. So I really appreciate you bringing that piece. Yeah.
Sarah: And I'm glad you're, you're stating how difficult it actually is, , because it is, and I was talking yesterday to someone who's older, you know, and, and for someone, you know, my generation, Gen X or even older, it is especially difficult.
And, and even more so if we love our job, you know, [00:16:00] if we actually do love our job. And so I was telling this guy, I'm like, I know you love your job, but think of, you know, who will be there for you. The end of your life, who is really gonna be, you know, valuable, , and counting, , at the end of your life.
And so those are the people that we need to hang out with, even though, yes, it's amazing to watch, you know, your client's transformation and whatnot, but, , yeah. It really is difficult. But let's go back to the, the pricing and the, Yeah. Actually one more term that I heard, , on Jonathan Fields, , podcast.
, I'm blanking on his, podcast. We'll put in the show notes. , but , this, idea of maximum sustainable generosity that really speaks to me to. My listeners, we are heart centered entrepreneurs, right? And so we do want to give a lot and, , this idea of, you know, pricing, raising our prices and, and where [00:17:00] is the limit and how much can we give before we ask?
, and so this term of maximum sustainable generosity really, really spoke to me because we need to define where that is for us. So that we can still give and feel good about ourselves, about giving, but it has to also be sustainable for us. And I think that concept, once you understand that, that's when you're gonna be ready to put boundaries and say, No, until here, I can give.
And then here are my boundaries. So I just wanted to bring that up again. , yeah, let's talk about pricing and. What do we do then when we, you know, we, Okay, we have this issue with, , imposter syndrome. How can we do this inner work and what do we need to do in order to be able to say, Okay, I'm ready to raise my prices.
Mm.
Lindsay: Okay. So the, the three tiers that I use are sufficient. Leisurely and enoughness. Okay? And [00:18:00] sufficient is the bottom of this kind of tier or this pricing step where you are charging enough and your business is generating enough income to make sure that all of your needs are met.
And that means. Your business, but also your personal life. And when I say your needs are met, I'm not just talking about making sure you have enough money for fuel and for food. I'm also talking about making sure you have enough for that weekly yoga class or that monthly massage, whatever it is that helps you regulate your nervous system.
So that first step is sufficiency. Mm-hmm. . And then we move into leisurely. So the way that, that the imagery that comes to mind for. Is if you imagine a hot day, we're recording in the middle of the summer here. It is quite toasty and steamy outside today. So if we imagine sufficient is when you're at at a hot day and there's like an outdoor shower and you're cooling down and you have enough water to like rinse your body and to cool off, [00:19:00] and it is enough to regulate your temperature and to feel cool again.
Then if we imagine leisurely that's having like a pool, Available to you. You can kind of get in, you can sit on your little raft. You're very relaxed and you have more than enough. And when we have that more than enough, that's when we can start giving back to our communities. Whether that's by offering a sliding scale, offering scholarship spaces, donating money to causes in our community that are important to us, or volunteering in our community with causes that are important to us.
And then we imagine that next kind of tier. Is enoughness and that enoughness is whatever natural body of water comes to mind. It could be a river, it could be a lake. It could be a deep well, but it is, you have more than enough to regenerate your business. You have more than enough to pour into yourself, to pour into your communities.
But I often think what hap what happens with heart centered entrepreneurs [00:20:00] is they start giving back at that enoughness level before their business is supporting them at that sufficient level. So they're giving too much time, they're giving too much energy, they're sliding. Scale, they're underpricing their services, and then again, it gets back into that imposter syndrome, frantic cycle.
If I don't have enough, I need more. And then you are coming to potential clients from this place of desperation, from this place of anxiety, and from this place of underpricing. And when we think about justice and we think about equity, we have to include ourselves in that as well, which means we can't be martyrs for the system.
We have to say. I also deserve to have financial compensation that is more than enough, and I also have to be included in making sure that I can buy my groceries and take a holiday. Sleep at night. So those are the things that I kind of think about when we are pricing our services. So we, we need to first meet that first stair step or that kind of cold [00:21:00] shower by making sure that we have enough to take care of ourselves.
And then as we move up that scale, We can be increasing our pricing services, but we can also start giving back a little bit more. And the other analogy that gets used all the time that I think is worth repeating is that oxygen mask analogy. We cannot take care of others until we take care of ourselves.
And it's not about being selfish, it's about showing up and saying, I'm a part of this equation. I'm a part of my community too, and I also deserve to take care of myself financially.
Sarah: Yeah. What came up for me while you were talking was this kind of trend of the high ticket client. Oh,
Lindsay: yeah. for the podcast listeners.
That was a massive eye roll on my part,
Sarah: so, yeah, that, that, I don't know if it's still out there because I just block everybody who's trying. You know, message me being a, a high thick, a client coach or anything like that. Yes. [00:22:00] So, So you're still seeing it out there
Lindsay: now? Oh yeah. I'm still seeing that.
So I'm seeing, so I'm seeing two trends that I'm surprised still exists that I think are worth exploring for your heart centered entrepreneurs. So I'm seeing. On the one end, that high ticket offer where you are charging a client 30, 40, $50,000 for your goods service, coaching expertise, whatever. And the idea behind it is that, you know, our income is a math equation, and if I sell one trinket to somebody for $10, or if I sell one trinket to somebody for $10,000, I have to sell fewer of those $10,000 items.
To make, to meet my financial needs. Right. It, it makes sense from a financial perspective, right? But from a heart center and entrepreneur perspective, it's not just about selling the thing, it's also about delivering the thing. And are you capable? And you may be, and you may be sitting here listening, going, I am capable of that.
Are you capable of delivering a 30, 40, [00:23:00] $50,000 value to the clients that you. Saying that you are going to serve mm-hmm. , and that's a question only you can answer. , and I, I think we all have the capacity to probably charge more than we are. Without getting into that slimy, like trying to chase down somebody and, and ring of them.
When I say ring, I mean like a, like a towel ringing out a towel, like ringing of them all of their financial resources. I have heard horror stories of people and I'm sure we know of them. Where these high ticket coaches go after clients who are in desperate need of sustainability in their business, and they say if you just gimme $30,000, if you just gimme $50,000, I guarantee you'll be a seven figure business owner.
They are prey on people who are incredibly vulnerable and in the US. We have access to huge lines of credit that you don't have in the eu. So in the US you can really get into a lot of trouble. I have heard horror stories of [00:24:00] people taking out huge credit cards, , and racking up tons and tons of debt. I have heard of people reorging their houses to give these high ticket coaches their money only to be basically found out that they have been bamboozled and they end up in these kinds of situations where, The marketing was great, the promise was great, but the delivery was just the same as anything else.
video1642351392: I
Sarah: just wanna add before you go into the other, , example. Yeah. So, so also from, , my own experience, I used to have a $7,000 offer. And from talking to a friend who had, you know, a $20,000 offer, I think the pressure it puts on you. As the entrepreneur to then basically chase after clients who are, who have that kind of money.
And of course we're not talking about companies, right? Right. We're talking here to about coaching for individuals and, and already $7,000 is, [00:25:00] is a high number. And so the pressure I felt, , to find clients who are willing to invest that amount. And then also the sense of failure if you are not making those sales, really, it's, it's just not worth it.
It really is just not worth it, so. Right. Yeah, I totally agree with you. It, I think though that that trend. Is coming to an end. We're living in way different times now, so. Mm-hmm. , there may be still high ticket coaches, but I'm not sure that they're doing so well right now. So I'm,
Lindsay: yeah, I don't know,
Sarah: like serving that.
Lindsay: Trend a bit closer. Yeah, it's interesting because what I find in the online world is that a lot of these things continue, but they're just repackaged. Like they're repackaged as like VIP days. And not to say there aren't ethical VIP days or really good VIP days, but I see these things kind of recycled.
So maybe the high ticket one year. Support [00:26:00] Mastermind isn't working anymore, but maybe a v i P day is, or maybe, you know, an expensive retreat is, and again, it's not that the thing is problematic. No. Whether it's a retreat or vip. Yes, exactly. It's everything behind it. , that I think we really just need to be cautious of and just curious.
And when I say curious, I mean like getting in tune again, we talked at the start of this, about the inner work, but getting curious if somebody's approaching you with that high ticket, you know, mindset stuff that feels in your body not settled. It makes you feel anxious, it makes you feel a little bit skeptical.
I think it's worth turning in with that curiosity. Do you just. What is here? Yeah. What is
Sarah: coming up? Signals
Lindsay: telling me. Yes. Yes. And I think with a lot of that, like high ticket mindset coaching, they tell you to not trust your nervous system. Mm. They say, Oh, no, no, no. You have to jump in. A net will appear.
You have to [00:27:00] just trust me. That's a mindset issue. You're in scarcity right now. Mm-hmm. . And it's like, no, your body is pretty freaking wise and it's really good at telling you something is amis. Yeah, and if I am really meant to work with this person, or work with this coach or join this program, I might have some of that anxious excitement, but I won't have fear.
And I think we have to start trusting ourselves a bit more in online business, which again comes back to imposter syndrome. If we feel like we don't know enough or we need somebody else to validate our opinions, we will push aside our nervous systems signals and join because we don't trust ourselves.
Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So the second example you wanted to share. Yeah,
Lindsay: so the second example is on the other end of the scale of, you know, we've got these high ticket offers and then we have like super, super, super low ticket offers that. Can also cause a lot of overwhelm. And the way that I've seen them in the [00:28:00] past few years is like the, , the free summits or the free, , master classes, things like that where you join, and then you're bombarded with a lot of information.
It's the same thing. You get 10 minutes of information on marketing, 10 minutes of information on sales, 10 minutes of information on a website, and you leave and your nervous system is so over. Stimulated because you've spent two days sitting in all these like mini master classes kind of drinking from a fire hose, and then your brain and body is so overwhelmed.
And then again, you're getting into this imposter syndrome of, well, I don't know enough about sales or marketing or websites or SEO or Facebook or TikTok, so I need all these 10 different experts guidance, and now I need to join all 10 of their programs. Right? Right. And it's again, just like having some inner wisdom to.
Okay. What is really going on in my. . Actually, I am really struggling with the marketing piece. I know my product is good. I [00:29:00] know my coaching is amazing. I know that all of that is good, like the delivery side of things are really good, but maybe I do need some help showing up visibly and showing up authentically and getting out of my comfort zone there.
And maybe there is one person at that summit who has that wisdom to impart on you, but do you need all 10 of those programs? The answers probably. Yeah, and so getting really curious, and this is where getting to know your numbers becomes really powerful. Because if you're following your numbers every month, which I recommend everybody do, is to have a CEO date or a money date and take a look at Where is my money coming from?
What am I spending my money on, and also where are my clients coming from? Then you can make informed decisions about your business. You can follow those numbers and you can get to know where are the leaks or where are the holes that need patching in my business? And you can make decisions. From an informed and from a grounded place.
And you can say, [00:30:00] Actually, it does make sense for me to invest in a marketing coach right now, but it doesn't actually make sense for me to hire a TikTok coach if I haven't even downloaded the app. Right. . Like we just have to think really curiously and compassionately about what we actually need and then we can invest accordingly so long as we have that money available.
Hmm. Yeah. I love how
Sarah: you. Talk about pricing, but we're also talking about investing in a way, You know, it's like it all goes together. It's like, well, it all goes together. If you do increase your prices and you're paid more fairly, then you'll also have more money available to invest back into your business if that's what you want.
, right. But again, that doesn't mean that you have. Buy every program out there. It just really neat. No, what I hear you say, and I totally agree with that, is giving power back to the client. I talk a lot about that. It's like, yes, we have been treating our clients as if they were stupid. You know, like telling [00:31:00] them things, talking to them as, as if they were little children.
Right. And so, , In a way as clients, as customers, we also started to give our power away and kind of become sheep by talking the marketing, like we're human bug. I talk about, you know, sheep and we've just kind of been following along, and it's time to take that power back and think for ourselves, what do I really need?
Is this a good thing for my business right now? So, yeah, absolutely. Mm. Really appreciate that. Mm-hmm. . So in terms of the. You know, we talked a little bit about the high ticket client. Another thing that comes to mind is, is the current situation with inflation. And, you know, everything that's going on in the world.
, How do we react to this? Like, it could be that we're just kind of completely frozen and think, Oh, I'm gonna go back to scarcity because , I just feel like nobody has money anymore at all. So how do we react to [00:32:00] a market that, you know, there's, everywhere you look, people are saying lost everything. there's no more money in the market.
Is that really true? Or how do we react to.
Lindsay: What I've been telling both my financial therapy clients and the folks I coach, , I'm building their practices, is that. We deal with something every single day that we have no control over, and we have our whole lives, but we learn how to cope. And the example that I give is weather, not climate.
Weather . So when it's raining out, what do we do? We dress for the weather. We put on our rain boots, we put on our raincoat, We grab an umbrella. When it is cold out, we grab our parkass and our. And when it's warm out, you know, we get our little . Maybe we go inside somewhere that it's cooler or we find a space in the shade and we dress in like linen and lighter clothing.
Because here's the thing, none of us can control the weather, but we can control and prepare how we dress for it. [00:33:00] So when it comes to things like inflation and the stock markets and gas prices, we don't have control over that, and we have to release control over. But we do have control over other things.
And when it comes to financially preparing our businesses for the weather, there are certain things that we can do and that we do have control over. I recommend that all of my clients kind of increase the amount of money in their business emergency fund and in their personal emergency fund, and that means having a couple months of business expenses.
Readily available in that business bank account so that if you have fewer clients that month, or if you have like a, you know, a quieter month or two, you're still able to pay your business bills, but also continue to pay yourself. Because going back to the sustainability, we have to include ourselves in it.
So making sure that that business emergency fund has our business expense. And the ability to make sure that we are getting our pay from that business. [00:34:00] So that's one thing we could do to kind of financially dress for the weather of a a recess. Other things we can do are also making sure that we aren't reacting, we are really being embodied.
And when I say embodied, I mean checking in with our physical self and saying, What do I need and what do my clients need? I've seen some entrepreneurs panic put everything on a 50% off sale because they're terrified that nobody's gonna come because of the recession. And so they just put everything on sale.
Without going, Are my clients asking for this? Are people saying to me, You know what Lindsay? I'm unable to afford that. What other offers do you have? Or am I reacting and putting everything on sale? Right. So we have to get really wise that there may be creative ways to serve our clients financially speaking that don't put us in harm's way.
And that could be saying something like, Hey, you know, I've got all of this great content. I'm gonna offer , a membership community that is a lower cost, but I still am delivering high value knowledge and good and support, [00:35:00] goods and support. It could be saying, you know what, like for me, I do power sessions where I meet with a, a clinician.
One on one and we do a deep dive in like one or two things that are really kind of getting them stuck in their business and figuring that out. We could say, You know what, I'm gonna structure that, as a group power session so three people can split the cost of that and each person will get, you know, 20 minutes of my time.
But everybody gets. 60 minutes of support. And so you're providing something where you are still getting the income that you need to make your ends meet, but you're providing it maybe to your community at a lower cost. But we need to be really intentional about, So that's the second thing, is making sure that when you're pricing your.
Offers. You're not putting everything on sale just because, And then finally, it is worth kind of dialing down spending on areas that maybe aren't working for you any longer. So for example, maybe that is moving from a more expensive community platform to a more affordable community platform. Maybe that is saying, You [00:36:00] know what?
I've been paying for ads and maybe ads aren't really necessary for me right now. So maybe I hit pause on those ads so it can be. Dialing down that spending too. So those are kind of the three things I'm recommending for entrepreneurs as this recession likely is coming up, is to make sure you have enough in your reserves to pay yourself and to cover your business expenses.
Making sure that when you are pricing your offers, you are doing them in a way that still supports you financially, but might be of greater benefit to your clients by getting creative about your offers. And then three is dialing down expenses that maybe you don't need or don't need in the moment. Mm.
Sarah: Yeah. So good. I like the creativity. I think it's really a time for thinking creatively. Yeah. And coming up with, with offers that Yeah. In the past you hadn't thought, Oh, what if I did it this way, What I created, What if I created pods or Yeah. Small groups or things like that. , the other thing you kind of mentioned with the [00:37:00] savings, is really understanding that.
Business, especially as entrepreneurs, it comes in cycles and you cannot expect, you know, every month to be the same. I think we know that from experience, but just kind of relaxing into that and knowing that this may be a bit of a DR cycle, but that there's another one, , coming back. so, so just planning already in cycles and knowing Okay.
You know, now I'm kind of in this and what was it, eti, I forget the, these terms, but, but now it's kind of like a lower , cycle and plan for the, for the next one. Yeah. The, the one thing I wanted you to share to kind of close up here, is, you know, from some of your clients, the work you, if you can think of one mm-hmm.
where, where you kind of worked on. Pricing slash imposter syndrome, , if you would share that success story with
Lindsay: us. Yeah, so one thing is [00:38:00] that in the US , I work with a lot of healthcare providers and specifically mental healthcare providers, and so it's really common for clinicians in private practice to say, I'm going to take insurance, because that feels.
You know good. And also insurance companies pay really poorly here. They just do. So by default, we end up sliding our fees to accommodate these insurance companies. And when I say they pay poorly, I'm talking, they pay 40, 50, 60% of our actual fees, so we're putting our fees on sale. And so a big fear for a lot of my clients is leaving insurance panels, and I have seen so many of my clients get comfortable saying, I'm going to leave those insurance panels so that I can actually take care of my financial self.
And then what they're able to do with that additional revenue. Is actually be able to offer sliding scale spaces that actually work for them. And what I mean by that is saying, Okay, for every eight clients [00:39:00] I have who pay my full fee, I can offer one client a super discounted rate without impacting my financial bottom line.
So it's about kind of getting into that balance and getting into that zone. And so many of my clients have been able to fill their practices in that way. That is in alignment with their values. That also helps to move them towards those other. Of the financial tiers that we talked about earlier. And so for people who are listening, that might also look like, how can I ethically increase my rates in a way that supports me and sustains me?
That then allows me to get creative and give back to my community. Maybe that means I do one free coaching call a month and anybody who wants to hop in can hop in. I first have to make sure that I financially am able to support that time going out. So thinking about it, for those of you who are listening, kind of making the scales with my hands right now, kind of getting really creative about how can we find that balance, how can we find that harmony [00:40:00] that supports us and supports our community?
Mm.
Sarah: Yeah. So good. And I think that goes for everyone, not just clinicians or therapists, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So good. Thanks for sharing that. , this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for coming on, Lindsay. Do tell people where they can find, You and your work, and we haven't talked about your book, but you have a book out there as well, so mention that please,
Lindsay: too.
Sure, of course. Well, thank you again, Sarah, for having me. This has been such a fun and energizing conversation. So my business is called Mind Money Balance, and you can find me on my website. My podcast is of the same name. My Instagram handle is of the same name. Depending on when this airs, I might be on an Instagram hiatus.
I like to take a few months off each year. Good for you. Yeah, which is really important and really, , helps to sustain me to give me that little social media break. , but the book that I wrote was called The Financial Anxiety Solution, and it's a workbook that helps you include. Your thoughts [00:41:00] and your feelings and your relationship with money.
My philosophy is that money is about 80% psychological and emotional, and about 20% about the numbers. And even the numbers that we need are very, very basic math. And I say this as a person who failed college algebra , right? Like all of the math that we need for our personal finances and really for the basics of building our business.
Finances can be done. Phone calculator or a quick Google search. So those are a couple of places to find me. And if you're interested in learning more about your financial archetype, I have a free quiz@mindmoneybalance.com slash quiz. There are four different financial archetypes that shape the way we look at money and what we do with money.
So it can be a fun way to get to know a little bit more about why you might be falling into this imposter syndrome or over consuming. So you can check that out.
Sarah: Wonderful. Yeah, I'll definitely make sure we put all those links in the show notes. And as you know, I always ask last question, and that is, what are you grateful for today or this week,
Lindsay: Lindsay?[00:42:00]
Oh, today and this week I have been really fortunate to spend some outdoor time with my friends living in a climate. I live in Michigan in the United States where it's chili for, you know, good six months of the year. So having. Son come out and be able to sit on back porches and patios with friends has been really nourishing to my soul.
So I'm really grateful for that at this moment in
Sarah: time. Wonderful. And it's not too hot either, so
Lindsay: that's No, no, it's, it's steamy, but it's do.
Sarah: Thanks so much for coming on to this show. I really enjoyed our time together. Such a treat.[00:43:00]