Feb 18, 2022
Jason Marc Campbell is the author of the upcoming book Selling with Love. He interviews thought leaders from around the world on topics of Leadership, Teambuilding, Communication, Productivity and so much more. He is a public speaker who’s shared the stage with the likes of Gary V, Jason Silva, Vishen Lakhiani, Lisa Nichols, and more. You’ll quickly recognize him through his high energy and passion for making a positive impact in people's lives.
His mission is all about teaching companies to care more. As businesses have so much power in the capitalist world, if we can educate businesses to take on more responsibility on how they sell, how they market, how they treat their employees and even how they invest their money, we start shifting the very planet into a better place for all.
In this episode, you'll learn selling with love, and...
- What the opposite of 'selling with love is'
- How to humanize the cold out reach and start with offering value
- How to make automation and digitalization work for us, but in a humane way
- How this love fest fits into capitalism
- and so much more.
Jason’s Resources
Download Jason's Selling with Love Cheatsheet
Connect with Jason on:
Sarah's Resources
(FREE) Sarah’s One Page Marketing Plan
(FREE) Sarah Suggests Newsletter
(FREE) The Humane Business Manifesto
(FREE) Gentle Confidence Mini-Course
Marketing Like We're Human - Sarah's book
Authentic & Fair Pricing Mini-Course
Email Sarah at sarah@sarahsantacroce.com
Thanks for listening!
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Warmly,
Sarah
Imperfect Transcript of the show
Sarah: [00:00:00] Hi, Jason. So good to speak to you again because we've met before and here we have the opportunity to talk again. Delighted to
Jason Marc: have. It's good to see you again. And yes, it is not our first conversation, not our last, neither, but it's an interesting one in the.
Sarah: Yeah, indeed. Last time we talked, you were to just before your book launch, and now you just told me offline.
You're like right in the middle of it. It's coming out on Valentine's day. If I remember, well, it's easy to remember, but. Yeah. So must be exciting times for you.
Jason Marc: There's an interesting one on that. It's the day after Valentine's day. So I was planning for Valentine's day, but apparently with the the company where I'm doing launches, they do it on Tuesdays.
So I th I said, maybe that's a, maybe that's a good thing. I think maybe Valentine's day should remain. You know, personal love, but maybe the day after Valentine's they can be business love, you know, that's what we're, that's what we're going to be talking about.
Sarah: [00:01:00] That's a good story. It's like, yeah, it's not, you know, the cheesy kind of Valentine's day, it's the day after.
So we always have to look for those stories, right? Yeah. So let's get right into it. Had this question that I want to kind of throw at you to start with what's the opposite to you you know, from selling would love what's the opposite of that. And maybe it's some of what we're seeing now. You tell me, what do you see?
Jason Marc: That's a, that's a very interesting place to start and, you know, I find it very funny, the way that I structure my book, I talk about how to sell with love in the second part of the book, but everything in the first part of the. And my goal is not even to get people to love seller and to understand how to sell with love.
I'm just trying to make a case for people to like selling. And that's already a big step because you know, more often than none, we are exposed to types of sales that might not necessarily be done from a place of love. And what I've done is I've [00:02:00] actually broken it down into four different levels. Of how you sell and it's based on emotion.
So if I'm going to explain what selling with love, isn't I'll explain the definition so you can understand where these brackets go in. Whichever one you find interesting we can deeper into, but the way I define sales is an energy exchange between conscious beings. And the element of selling with love is when you know, what you offer is so much more than what you ask in return.
The emotion of love is what balances the. And so I call sales and energy exchange because whether it's a product or service money's being exchanged, time is being invested. It's all energy. And then I also speak about emotions, being energy in motion, being a part of that energy exchange as well. We always have a feeling in every sale and sometimes it makes us feel good.
Sometimes it makes us feel bad. And so if I'm not selling from love, I speak of the three other major energies that we sell from, which are shame and guilt blocking. We're at that point, you're just terrified of selling. You probably don't [00:03:00] encounter these often as a buyer, because these are people that are going to run away from any sales opportunity.
Cause it's just, it doesn't feel good. You're afraid of it. And so the, the best example would be the store clerk in in, in a retail store that just runs away when a client comes in, right. It's just like, oh God, I don't want to be a salesperson. So as a buyer, we don't see them as a seller. If we have, you know, blocks around selling, this is one that we might identify with the second level.
No wonder we would associate with a negative sales that we witnessed the most, which is what I call the fear and pride paradox. This is a place where you can learn processes in sales that make you very effective at selling you. You kind of learn to have the gift of the gab or you, you, you start being someone that can be considered a slick salesperson.
But you don't take responsibility for the impact of the sales you make. Now, this can make you a very effective sales person in the current paradigm of the world, or at least maybe a little older paradigm, maybe a few years ago. There is this birth that is happening. I mean, Sarah, we were talking about this on our episode [00:04:00] together.
There's a movement. That's pushing everybody towards the understanding that selling with love, selling from the heart. So I'm like, we're human. This is really where the world is heading. And so this idea is going to become much more mainstream because we're realizing that the old way isn't working, it's leaving.
Mental health issues, addiction issues, because you realize that there is an energy exchange and you're burying that burden. And a lot of times we want to numb ourselves from that reality. And I think that's what mostly happens when you're at this fear pride paradox. And then the third emotion is what I call the rational sabotage and this really quick overview of all these categories and sense rational sabotage is when you feel like you're trying to do the best, but you're not willing to take responsibility or.
A sense of leadership of guiding the buyer towards the buying process. Instead, you're trying to give the responsibility to the buyer because you're afraid of that responsibility. And so you're not coming from the place I'm going to come back to that. Well, those are your big ones. You've got shame, guilt, you've got fear pride, and you got rational [00:05:00] sabotage.
And I feel like the majority of your, your listeners might be in that last category since we're trying to do our best, but we might not be aware that the top tier still exists.
Sarah: I do want to circle back to you know, the initial question about what is it that we're seeing now, and I assume that's kind of what you prompted that prompted you to write the book.
So tell us a little bit about. Yeah. The reason for you saying, Hey, there needs to be a book called selling would love, so, so yeah, take us there. And I assume that we'll start with, well, what we're seeing now in, or like you named it before the old paradigm, maybe of sales.
Jason Marc: Yeah. So, I mean, for me there was a bit of an event that happened in my life.
And this was in my early twenties, very ambitious and. I wanted to make money. And I ended up buying one of these real estate investment seminar coaching packages. This was [00:06:00] like $20,000. And I got taken with some of my best friends. We partnered together. We put all our funds together and we wanted to buy this real estate program is telling us that we're going to give us everything, take us by the hand guarantee our success, you know, and we went down, we were in Florida and then they.
One of their friends come over. They said, yeah, this is my cousin. He's going to fund every deal that you're going to buy. We're like what? This is incredible. There was a really cool opportunity. Maybe this was back in 2010, you know, the downturn happened in America as Canadians. We could buy these for really cheaper dollar was actually stronger than the U S.
And so it's a rare occurrence. Right? Long story short is they threw us into a, you know, a recording studio to create testimonials of our experience in the moment those were done, that cousin that said I was going to fund the deal disappear. And and we were just left with, you know, our pants down and they ran those ads across Canada's infomercials.
And, you know, for me, I, you know, we were left trying to figure out what to do with these deals. The good news is we figured it out and it wasn't a fun experience. I mean, I went personally through a lot of dark [00:07:00] times, you know, Find medication, get some consultations with a psychiatrist. There's a, it was a, it was a very depressive time for me, a lot of stress trying to figure this out.
And I just don't wish that on anybody else. And I have witnessed that there's so many people that can use sales as a tool. Speaking about the fear and pear and pride paradox at that level, people can be very powerful and they can manipulate people. They can take advantage of people. And the reason this book is being birthed is because one of the biggest contributions I've wanted to made after that experience is I don't want to see a world where you have.
I'll use the professional term, douchebag, marketers, and salespeople that can take advantage of people. And so if I can create the tools and share with them our way of looking at sales, that empowers ethical businesses to be able to use those tools, to understand the language that's necessary for people to understand their value.
Then I get to push the world into a direction that I want.
Sarah: I love, I'm glad I asked that question because it really opened up that personal story. And [00:08:00] man, it must've been a dark night of the soul. It gives isn't that, you know, Yeah, we were seeing these ads on YouTube. And, and, and, and can I ask if there was some part of shame related to that as well?
I, I hear that whenever we, we fall into such traps and can happen to anybody, there's like the shame after, you know, think why did this happen to me?
Jason Marc: Yeah, there was, and you know, I had brought in my best friends, you know, like I convinced my friends and I remember that it was one of my friends who was kind of a.
The one that he hadn't been in the room to witness the seminar. So he wasn't drinking the Kool-Aid. He wasn't under the spell and he was just sitting there. Why do we need to pay 20 grand? Why don't we take that and put that into the assets that we're trying to acquire? You know, and I was like, no, you know, at this time there's so much uncertainty and this is where sales can be dangerous.
And especially with what you're seeing on ads now, like whether that's NFT crypto's and all these opportunities get rich and you're watching, it's almost at an [00:09:00] accelerated pace. Now. I wish I could say things got much better. I think there's a big movement towards selling with love and from the heart.
And you know, like we're humans, but there's an equally. Sign that's also still taken advantage of people. Yeah. You're like, wow, I want to get into this. And if someone could only tell me that they're going to hold my hand and make everything be good and I can pay for that insurance. God, is it comforting?
Because we're in a world there's so many choices to make. If someone tells us this is the choice you can make and everything will be okay. Oh, we want to believe it with all our soul. You're
Sarah: right. It's just, it's this time of uncertainty. And that's always, when, when you know, the typical sales people take advantage and at the same time you had there.
Partly doing it for their own survival, but only to a very certain degree. And then it's just manipulation and abuse. So yeah. Let's get comfortable. Survival. Yeah, exactly. So it's say I can defend it to, you know, [00:10:00] it's it, they definitely have a skill. I always. That it's like, yeah, you have a really good skill at manipulating people, but yeah.
Could you use that skill for something else? That would be amazing. If you could apply that skill to, like you said, make the place, the world a better place. That would be much better use of that skill. I want to kind of dive into the nitty gritty of, you know, some of the things maybe that we see Happening right now.
So for me, what comes up is cold outreach, you know you know, that I have a past, as LinkedIn consultants still do some LinkedIn work. And even though we've been repeating for years and years don't do cold outreach with, with, you know, third party tools. It is still thriving. And so I was curious.
Your thoughts are about cold outreach. Is that something that can be done with love or [00:11:00] is there, is that just a complete taboo and there should be enough.
Jason Marc: It's it's interesting. Cause I actually am working with some people on teaching them how to use tools to do prospecting it's it's one of the most intimidating parts of being a salesperson is having a pipeline being fed with new and new leads.
And I was looking and I was quite fascinated by the tools that do exist. I was like, oh my God. Scary levels of automation, especially on LinkedIn. Right. You know, I I'll, I'll share one experience that I've been doing actually this week. And, you know, I was mentioning to you before the call that I'm doing a lot of promotion for the book right now.
And so one of the things that I know I want to do both for my podcast and to get myself featured on other people's podcasts is I saw a list of a hundred of the most influential sales leaders. And they all had their LinkedIn account there. And I started scanning the listen, I'd say for 90% of the people on these.
I was like, wow, I love to bring them on the show. And this is where, you know, cold outreach I would consider is anybody. You're just sending a [00:12:00] message. But I think that there's degrees of temperature to the outreach and yeah, there are some that could be considered less personal, but knowing that we're in an attention economy, everybody's getting a ton of messages.
And if you really have a message that, you know, will be valuable for people, you've done some research for some relevant. Then yeah, I would find ways to be a bit more efficient to do it mind you, in my case, I didn't know these tools existed. So I did my reach-outs manually. I see all the people on that list.
I went to connect with them. I add a note and the note comes with a position of giving value before just trying to take. Right. Right. And I think the method of how you outreach can differ based on which position you're in. But in my case was like, if you, we had connected before that, but I think you were on that list and I would have reached out to you at that time.
But I reached out. But I would say, Hey Sarah, my name is Jason. I have a podcast. I have already a significant amount of downloads, some great guests that came on and I'd love to have you come as well. Is there an email that I can send you more details? And I've done that with a very standardized message for a lot of people, because [00:13:00] there was 90 of them I needed to reach out to.
And I also have limited time. I need to be efficient too. And for the majority of the people that I reached out to, I got a positive response, right. Is this considered completely cold outreach. I feel like the fact that I've actually targeted, it was a very specific group. I knew they were sales leaders, and I knew there were relevancies of bringing them at least on a platform that I could bring value to them by bringing them to my audience.
And I think that's something that's really cool that we can do today. Like regardless of if you're just getting started, you're an experienced sales profession. There are ways that you can actually generate content, whether that's in a form of a podcast, whether that's writing content, whether that's a YouTube channel, but having a medium where you're continuously contributing actually becomes a magnet for attracting some of the people you're looking to do business with.
And I think that becomes a bit more effective in the way of.
Sarah: Yeah, because it's human to want to be on, you know, have the attention of someone else. So that's kind of the human [00:14:00] ego, I guess also speaking, saying, Hey, I'm important. Yeah. I want to be on that podcast. So yeah, that's what I always teach.
In, in the LinkedIn outreach, it's like, don't ask for anything in these first messages, because. They don't know you, they own no, whether you're an authority or, or not. And it just comes over as super needy. If you ask, you know, straight away for even their time, often people say, yeah, but I'm giving them a free session with me.
I'm like, yeah. But you're asking for their time and time is super precious. And we don't realize that that's a big ask. Actually, it's, it's maybe a bigger ask than, you know, here's a link. Do you want to look at that? So, yeah, I, I appreciate you sharing this. And then of course the automation part, what kind of was semi-automated here is B is that you use the same message all the time, but you still selected the people.
And that I [00:15:00] think is where the danger is. If you use some of these third-party tools and then maybe you outsource this to a, a virtual assistant. They don't know if you notice person or not kind of relationship. And so it's just so embarrassing when you receive, like, for me I receive another message from another LinkedIn consultant.
Hey, do you want me to help you with LinkedIn? Have you looked at my LinkedIn profile and it's just like, it's hurting the reputation and, and, and that, you know yes, you would think, oh, that happens to one person out of a thousand. Well, it matters. It really matters. So, so yeah, I'm so glad you're, you're saying yes, we need to be an efficient and I'm all for that, but let's be very careful on, you know, And how we're doing that.
And, and again humanizing that approach, because I think by now people can sniff out an automated message [00:16:00] from a mile away. And so we really want to be careful with.
Jason Marc: Oh, the, the thing with automation you're right. It comes with a huge risk because you know, you're not fully aware of what that nomination is exactly doing, but at the same time, you know, automation just makes more of you happen faster.
And so if you, but the thing is, is if you don't have. Your core offer something of value, something that actually, like you said, a link that can honor people's time that can give them genuine value in the first interactions, if you're going and using these tools and asking, then now you're actually, you know, I don't want to go to as far as to say making a fool out of yourself, but you're alienating a lot of potential prospects at an accelerated rate.
So. Be careful. In my case, you know, I ended up doing the manual connections and, you know, there was a couple that I realized like, oh one of them I had already interviewed, oh, another one, I was already an inactive conversation. So at least I could make a filter from that. If I had a [00:17:00] tool who knows where that would have, I
Sarah: imagine how embarrassing that you just talked to them and now you're sending this automated message.
Yeah. And then I've seen that happen a lot with these tools. So I stopped recommending them to clients a long time ago. Yeah. You talk about seven touch points in, in sales. I think I heard you talk about it on another podcast. Is that.
Jason Marc: Well, it's not something I speak about. It was it was some research that was done that on average you'd have some, yeah.
It's kind of
Sarah: the general knowledge, right? Yeah. So, so, so maybe tell us what you think about, you know, seven touchpoints I write about in my book that today it's more like 77. I kind of joke. It's not 77, but it's a lot more. So I'm curious what you think about the whole. You know, sales path or funnel, however you want to call it.
How many touch points do we really
Jason Marc: need? Yeah. [00:18:00] Well, one thing I'd love to disclose is my lack of genuine experience when it comes to the B2B selling side, I've done a lot more work in the B to C side. So I just want to make sure that's clear with people and the way that I do do any kind of B2B, I find it so fascinating because you have tools like LinkedIn, you have tools like instant.
And you have all their company websites. I can use a tool like hunter.io to find people's emails. So if I'm going for an account, that's worth a significant amount of money. There's so many touch points that I can do as a salesperson to interact with the existing members of that organization. There's a, there's a brilliant story about somebody who wanted to actually to get a job.
At mine valley where I used to work. And it was a, it a really hard place to get a job for. So, and you know, the process of getting a job is a sales process where you're trying to nail one client. Right. And this person was so interesting. They wanted to work in marketing. So what they do, they found. And they, they ran and this was back before GDPR rules.
Okay. But they were able to upload the emails [00:19:00] of every employee at mind valley and then ran a video ad on Facebook for everyone that was on there saying like, Hey, you work for mine valley. I just want you to know my applications in the pipeline. And I'm targeting you to tell you that I'm going to be an incredible individual.
So if you're in a meeting with this. Who was the CEO at a time or any of the higher managers remember to talk to them about Clemen this is the guy. And if you click here, you'll see my resume and you can go directly. That came to CML. Wow. He became the CMO and, you know, he was like, you know, when you want to get somebody's attention, if you, should you take the maneuvers that, and this is something I speak about, actually, my book, because one of the loves of selling that I speak about is loving the process of selling.
And there's an interesting thing that I do as a litmus test, which is the kind of magician with pulling a rabbit out of a hat. So that's like the standard magic trick. But imagine the magician like has a rabbit. Rabbit disappears. And people are like, wow, that's amazing. And then he's like, cause everybody don't know how I did the trick.
And then when [00:20:00] people are like, sure, and he's like, well, I killed the rabbit. And then people will be like, oh my God, why didn't you do that? And then they'd be shocked. And now who cares about the manager, you did something wrong, right? Well, when it comes to the process of selling. You should imagine yourself having to disclose it to the people that you're selling to about what exactly did you use?
This goes back to your automation tool. If you're like, yeah. I actually use an automation tool and then I was just trying to get the attention of anybody. You'd be like, oh, I don't feel too good about that.
Sarah: That's awesome. I love that. Yeah. I love that analogy had, did rapid. It's a bit gross,
Jason Marc: but okay. But you remember it.
But, you know, I digress because I kind of I lost the thread of the question we were asking, but I do know that, you know, when you're looking, when, when you are on a B2B level, I think that there's, there's always an extra effort you can make when you're targeting a specific company. And this is not something about automation, and this is what makes you stand out because everybody's looking for the cheapest.
But if you're doing the research or going [00:21:00] the extra mile, I mean, there's this concept of which you know, one of his name was Dan Walsh, Nick, I believe edgy conversations or edgy sales. He was consulting us and actually he was telling a story. When I was interviewing him and his story was the fact that he wanted to get a client.
So he's, the CEO is a woman, a leader in the organization. She was the CEO. And so he actually mailed to her a like beautiful decorative sword. So as a sword that actually had an inscription in it from another female leader. And then on, it was a letter just saying like, just so you know, that you're a warrior in this world and we recognize your power.
She was like, wow. And there was such a personal gift, but that made him stand out over every other salesperson that yes. What he was an automated tool followed up three times, never personal. That's a much better touch point. So I'm not saying we should be buying weapons, but I'm saying if you can do something to stand out when you have a B2B.
Yeah, you can go the extra mile when you've really done the research. [00:22:00]
Sarah: It sounds similar to a conversation. I had the Adam on the podcast where we talked about moving the pay line. And so this concept was This was the idea of having again, creating experiences with your ideal client before they ever pay you.
Right? So it's almost like you're saying the touch points make them into experiences and not just sales messages, you know, sales emails and things like that. So, you know, getting a sword or whatever, getting flowers is an experience rather than just another sales message.
Jason Marc: And when you, when you speak on the B2C side, which is where I've done a lot of the work that I do, you know, with online marketing now, which I actually feel like it's more like direct response, online sales, the marketing element, you know, the branding that falls more.
The marketing side, but most of what people are doing when you're talking about conversion events, like webinar funnels, I find they're more sales [00:23:00] events, right? But they're nurturing the content or the contact by providing content. And so people come to a page, they opt in, you give them value, you invite them to an event.
You actually educate the buyer. And this is the key of any sales presentation is how do you actually educate the buyer? And these touch points can be so multiple. And speaking to my experience that I've had at pine belt, he was so fascinating. We had people that, you know, would opt into, let's say a free class in June, and they wouldn't make a purchase until December, but we kept him into the pipeline.
We kept them being exposed to other classes they would attend. And you can see a lot of this tracking that happens in the system. You'd see like, wow, some people can be in, in a funnel from 45 days to up to six months. And that's only the point where they'll decide, well, you know what? These people have been consistent.
I know exactly what I'm getting from their marketing experience. And I forget who said this quote, but I mean, the only experience your customer has with you before they become a customer is your marketing. And so if you're providing amazing touch points and a beautiful [00:24:00] experience for all your marketing, now they're getting some confidence of what they're gonna experience when they buy the product.
Right. Exactly.
Sarah: Before you mentioned the love of process. I would love for you to go a bit deeper into that and explain what this means to you and yeah. How it could look like
Jason Marc: when it comes to doing sales, the process of selling, right? A lot of people might have some hesitations around selling, maybe feeling that some tactics could feel manipulative.
Un-empathetic inhumane, right? What I often talk about when you say love, the process of selling is kind of a reframing that I like to do around all the tools and techniques that exist. Of course, there's the magic rabbit litmus test. That's kind of like your, your no-go zone, right? We, we want to keep the bunnies alive, but what I change when people feel like they're stem tactics, that could be manipulative.
I say, actually, what happens when you start using techniques and [00:25:00] sales that make you more effective at selling is actually you being empathy. Because you're actually learning the language that is necessary for people to understand the true value that you're trying to provide for them. And so, yeah, run the webinar, which has specific scripts in them that helps you make conversions and educates at the same time.
Yeah. Send that email that actually allows people to buy right after, because you know, it has a conversion rate. That's higher. Yeah. Reach out to the client 15 minutes after they fill out an inquiry form, because they'll be like, wow, that was such a rapid response, which increases your conversion. All of these things that you can build into your process of selling that makes people go wow.
Well guess what? These are amazing processes you can put in place and it makes people feel like you understand them. And that you're actually trying to help them make that purchase decision. It's the same way that, you know, we have a friend let's say that, you know, they're they made a new year's resolution where in the start of the new year.
So maybe a lot of us I've made those resolutions, maybe going to the gym is one of those. And maybe you have an accountability friend. [00:26:00] And maybe that friend shows up to you and says, come on, let's go to the gym and you don't feel like it. And that friend pushes you, nags you, and then finally say, literally drags you out of bed to go to the gym with them.
And then once you've done your gym session, you're like, God, thank you. I feel good because you've done an action that's in your highest interest. And that's really the energy that you should be putting into your sales process. Because if you know that the moment they purchase, they're going to be left with an experience that goes, wow.
Thank you for pushing you over that one. Then guess what? You can love the process of selling that.
Sarah: Hmm. I love how you explained that. I have to admit this idea of process to me. I don't know what it's, I guess it's the word itself. It makes me think of my seven P's of humane marketing in the old 7:00 PM.
There was the word process. And I kicked that out and I said, that's outdated. We need more partnership. That's a P that we need. And so maybe I just thought while you were talking, I'm like, oh, that's why I [00:27:00] don't like the word process, but the way you explained it now feels like, yeah, it is humane and there is obviously a, an interest, a self-interest to, you know, make the sale, make the win for yourself, but there's also definitely an interest for the client and serving them in a way that is best for them.
I guess, process also to me kind of means like, oh, let's use all these tools and I think that's where maybe we went wrong. I see a lot of the DS guru, marketers and salespeople. They, they just abuse all the tools and processes in order to make more sales. Right?
Jason Marc: Yeah. I mean, for me, I'm a, I'm a tech geek, so I love the tools.
But again, like I said earlier, as these tools in and of itself are quite innocent, but the ways that we use them can be. You know, manipulative, they didn't pass the test. Right. When I look at the process of sales, like if let's say you have a big mission, you want to make a big [00:28:00] impact and there's thousands of people knocking at your door.
Well, process becomes the liberator to be able to serve more people, right? Because now you can actually give them a way that they can serve themselves. They can actually do it in a more automated way. Now you're not holding back anybody who is looking for a solution that you would never be able to provide.
If you couldn't give them the attention because your time would be completely taken away. And this, again, reflects more into the B to C world because you often have to reach volume. So yeah, you have emails and yeah, you have all this automation and it creates a layer of separation, but at the same time, there's an understanding.
It's like if I walk into an apple store, And sometimes I do, you know, I could be picky. I maybe I want a little more service, but it's still a pretty good someone comes up. I say, oh, I want to pick this up. They tap a few buttons. Someone else pops up and says, we went to get your product. And it was like, everything's a process it's dominated.
And it leaves you with. Hmm. I think that's where process can be really, really powerful.
Sarah: Yeah. And [00:29:00] I love that as well. There's like this Swiss sufficiency and me, he was like, ah, I love processes. And the tools, I think the, the trick with the tools is we need to, because they got a bad rep, right. I'm thinking of, you know, all the pop-ups and the automated emails.
So we need to re-explain. To our customers, our clients, that these tool, it's not the tool that is mean and bad and manipulative, the tool can be used in a humane, loving way. So we need to almost like reeducate our customers that just because we're using tools, doesn't make us bad salespeople or bad people.
Jason Marc: No. I, I think of my own book as it's coming out. There's times that I judge my own book because I don't speak a lot about specific processes. And I mean, you know, give it two years. Every process is going to change. Every technology is going to change. So it's like I didn't go too much into depth because the essence is a bit of the manifesto that I want to bring forward.
It's how do I get [00:30:00] people to step into number one? The possibility of selling with love does exist. And number two, it's highly. Right. It's highly effective because now once you have that anchored first, then you can start seeking the tools that will support the vision of the impact that you want to make.
And so I love the fact that you also have your manifestor, which is all about selling, like we're human marketing, like you're human. If you can ingrain those values first, then you can let people realize that they've went to get at Lisa a certain consciousness certification before being given tools of radical and massive.
Yeah, these tools are powerful. Being a salesperson is powerful. I always, I always talk about how, you know, a sales person is a mover of energy. Everything that's created in this world is the result of a sale. And so what's the level of consciousness are we operating in when we're making these sales and we're moving this energy.
This is the minimum education that is required before we give these tools of mass. Yeah, so
Sarah: true. And, and with, with this [00:31:00] power comes responsibility. And so that's why we need to first have this consciousness and realize, oh, okay, this is what it's possible. Let me do it the right way and let me do it with love.
Yeah. So good. So I want to ask you the question about, you know, obviously the. This love Fest. It sounds great for my hippie soul. How does it fit into capitalism?
Jason Marc: That's a good question, because I've been on some other podcasts that are not as welcoming of the idea of love and sales. Are you kidding me?
That sounds Rue. And you know, I come from a background in personal growth. So of course I was trying to be a little edgy with putting those two words together. They come with a big contrast. Right. And I've seen it be translated in ways that could be, you know, when I speak to, let's say more, I don't know if I should use the word gentle audience members or people that are more receptive to the love.
They, they they're like, [00:32:00] yeah. Okay. I can get, I can rally around love, but selling is like, Ooh, you know, words are really powerful. And so I'll often substitute the word selling with communication. And then it just makes it easier to digest until I actually say, now, if we are selling in there right now, it's an easier way.
So with the love side I've seen him be translated into other terms such as selling with confidence and not. And then what I do is a distinction between confidence, not. I'm going to use the tools and techniques to appear confidence. But instead I say, no, what I'm teaching you is that to truly sell with confidence is you work on the competencies that are necessary for you to sell with confidence.
And it requires a product, an offer that truly serves. And so I'll change words to be a bit more accepted, but I've been surprised on its accessibility. I think, you know, 20, 22 is a year that people are now maybe really. Some things have not been working as well. And we want to see if there's a new way of doing things and what I've noticed for my more capital.[00:33:00]
Audience members is when I really dig down on the fear, pride paradox, the, the side where you're making sales without taking responsibility and the mental effects that that has why so many people that are, you know, hardcore salespeople and are, are struggling with, you know, wanting to numb themselves from the reality of the energy exchange that happens through every.
You know, why do we have the stereotypes of, you know, a stockbroker that's, you know, addicted to drugs, maybe sex addiction, maybe gambling, but just anything to take away, the presence that we have and the, the feeling that we have to kind of, you know, put it aside. And we usually, when I start talking about these issues, it becomes a bit more resonating with the audience and saying, Well, maybe there is a better way.
And I'm hoping that with the framework that I introduced, it's going to get people to light up and realize, wow, there is definitely a better way and it works.
Sarah: So what is your hope with this book?
Jason Marc: Well, as I mentioned, the reason I wrote is because [00:34:00] I want to reduce to eliminate the place for douchebag marketing and sales to exist in the world.
And so if I, if I could see this happening, I, I truly feel. When people sell from a place of love, there's a by-product of love through every transaction. Right? And I think that actually translates into a guidance. And so for every single sale that is made from this energy, you start actually solving genuine problems.
The. And if the companies you're helping you truly believe in the impact, the ripple effect of you helping them, like if you're providing services for a company and you start being selective about the companies you decide to serve, because the impact of them growing them, being more effective is actually making the world a better place.
If we become much more responsible for the ripples of every sale we make, we start genuinely solving problems. So we become more. We start shaping the world into a way that we want to see it become more. And yeah, we're going to have clashes of values based on our beliefs, but at the same time, if we're all coming from a place of love and you know, the second love that I [00:35:00] talk about in my prom and my framework is loving the buyer well, loving the buyer, the way to do that is to understand.
And so we start understanding each other more. And I think we need a lot of that today when we seem to be alienating ourselves. So this is the shift I'm hoping to promote, and that's why. Wonderful.
Sarah: I personally can't wait to read it. So it's going to be out on February 15th. Go ahead and buy it. Yeah. Tell us where people can find it, where they can find out more about you
Jason Marc: chase.
Yeah. The easiest thing is to go to selling with love.com. That's where you can find information about the podcast, the book, and there's going to be some cool bonuses during the launch time. You can always connect directly with me. Jason Mark Campbell. Mark is with a C whether that's on LinkedIn or on Instagram send me a direct message told me you heard me on this podcast.
I'd love to hear your feedback. I will also say, if you are connecting with me on LinkedIn, don't use the automated tool and add a note, add a note to your connection request. I have so many [00:36:00] requests with people that don't add a note. I don't accept it, but that would be my, my tactical tip is just add the note and just say, Hey, let's do you're on a podcast.
We'd love to connect. Then it's an easy yes for me. And that's already a Testament of, you know, what happens when you start actually caring a bit realizing there's a human on the other side, and you'll be surprised on who you can connect with.
Sarah: Wonderful. I always have one last question. And that is what are you grateful for today or this week?
Jason?
Jason Marc: I will say I'm grateful for my partner. She's a loving individual. And a matter of fact, we were on date. Today. And I realized we had our interview and she gave him and she's like, Jason, your message is important. So go into the interview, I'll be waiting, I'll be patient. And so I'm very, very grateful for my supportive partner and I'm very grateful that we had a chance to do some amazing interview.
Sarah: Nice. Yeah. Tell her we thank her for liberating you for 40 minutes and yeah. Thank you so much for taking the time and having this [00:37:00] conversation. You rock.
Jason Marc: It was my pleasure, Sarah. Thanks for having.